Unconditioning Love
Unconditioning Love
Shelley's Story - Creativity's Guiding Light
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Shelley is fourth-generation in the two by two system, raised in a divided home where her father was abusive and privileges other convention families took for granted never quite extended to them. She'd decided at eight years old that she was going to be a writer, and she and Lydia talk about the particular clash that created, since in a system where women don't have a public voice, sitting down to write novels wasn't just impractical, it was almost unthinkable.
The tension started early, in things like band and piano lessons that had to compete with Wednesday night meetings, and it followed her into adulthood, including the moment her mother had to correct someone in an audience who called her proud of Shelley's academic award: pride was a sin, she could only be happy for her. Shelley credits her mother, who stayed unconditionally loving even inside that framework, as the clearest definition of love she had growing up, one she kept separate in her mind from the conditional acceptance running through the meetings themselves.
The unraveling came in 1998, when she found Cherie Kropp's website and, in her words, said out loud, why am I sacrificing so much when none of this is even true. She walked away from her job and the church in the same stretch of time, keeping only her husband, her home, and her writing, the only three things she'd ever felt good enough within.
She went on to earn an MFA in writing popular fiction, sell her thesis to Harlequin, and years later take a six-figure deal to write Amish romance novels, work that draws directly and unexpectedly on the very upbringing she once had to leave behind.
Shelley and Lydia close on what she'd most want to hold onto looking back: the female friendships that carried her through it, and the family connections that keep quietly resurfacing now that she's willing to use her voice.
1:1 Trauma-Informed Coaching with Lydia
Hello and welcome to Unconditioning Love, where I, Lydia, your host, guide you through the profound journey of deconstructing love to rediscover its unconditional essence. Join me as we explore stories of resilience, speaking with individuals from the LGBTQ community, those who have found love post-narcistic relationships, and courageous souls breaking free from high control religions. Together, let's unravel the layers of conditional love and embrace the boundless beauty of love without conditions. Hello and welcome to today's episode. Today we have Shelly Adina Simp on the podcast calling in from California. Hello, Shelly, and welcome. Hi, Lydia.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for being here. So to start today off, why don't you tell folks a little bit about yourself? And let's start with when you were a child. Like tell them a little bit about your childhood and how things were when you were a child.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's kind of a big topic. In sort of in the short form, um, when I was six years old, my mother went back to the system that she had grown up in. I'm fourth generation in the um church or organization that people often call the two by two system. They call it the truth, they call it meetings. So she had grown up in that, and her parents had, I think, grown up in that. And so she went back to it in 19 when I was um six years old. And it was a bit of a shock because the little kids that I had been in Sunday school with could not figure out why I suddenly disappeared, and they never saw me in Sunday school again. So they we all went to the same elementary school, so they would often ask me, where did you go? What happened to you? And it was really hard to explain. We were now in going to somebody's house on Sunday morning, and that was just like more than they could figure out. So the the thing about my childhood was that I was in what's called a divided home. So even though we were a convention family, my grandparents owned the convention ground, my aunt and uncle owned another convention ground. We because we were in a divided home, we didn't really have as many privileges as you would expect. So that, you know, as I grew older and understood what those were and sort of saw what you know other high-ranking families in the system were doing, it it always kind of puzzled me. Anyway, moving forward from that, we the our home broke up in when I was about 18 and I moved to a different province in Canada. I'm Canadian, so I grew up on the West Coast and then moved inland a bit to Alberta and was able to sort of manage my own life. And it didn't matter what other people were doing because I could then manage what I was doing. So then I emigrated when I was 26 to the States just for a lark and fell in love and wound up staying here. And I've been here for 35 years. And about 10 years after I was married, I I sort of began to be uncomfortable because the the creative urge was sort of welling up. I had been decided when I was eight years old that I was going to be a writer. And so I had been going to university and I took a degree in a BA in literature, and that kind of solidified my path so that by the late 90s I was writing for publication. And it was kind of a double-edged sword because in the two by two system, women don't have a public voice. And to write novels was sort of unheard of. So that's like the three-minute precise of of kind of how I grew up. And the then sort of the next 10 years after that discovery of I'm gonna have a problem here was me sorting out the problem and deciding to leave the two by two system.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Well, that's so awesome of you that you within the system that you still you had you found your voice, first of all, and you started using that voice. And um, I am I I don't know your story and I don't know um your background, but I can guarantee that that in itself has inspired other women in your circle, in your community.
SPEAKER_00It I, you know, I can only hope because what do we women do but form communities among ourselves? And I've found that with writers is that the writer community is the strongest I've ever been in. We have each other's back, we go to each other for advice and career advice and personal advice, we commiserate because now we're kind of all at the age where we're we're facing elder care. And you know, how did you handle this? What did you do to get these resources? And it's just amazing that now all my closest friends are not the church, they are the writing community.
SPEAKER_01I love that, and I love that you have found your community. I also am a creative and growing up as a creative within a structure that really has four walls, like there's a particular way that you're meant to be. Um, tell me a little bit about what that was like as a child, because obviously, like those of you who are are writers, creative, like it didn't start when you're an adult, like you were creative as a child, and that outlet, I'm sure, you know, whether it was writing or something else, but um your soul just maybe like saw things a little differently because of that. So tell me about what that was like as a child.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think many of us who grew up in the system can relate to the fact that you started in something like band because music is a creative outlet. My mom said when I was six, do you want to take piano lessons? And you know, I saw myself at Carnegie Hall and I'm like, okay, yeah, I want to take piano lessons, and then I realized how much work it was. So from piano, I moved to, you know, band. And then I found out that I couldn't go to practices on Wednesday nights, and you know, they would have us selling chocolate bars. Well, you can't do that on Wednesday night, and you can't do things on Sunday, like we couldn't do weekend performances. I if the band wanted to go to a you know perform at an old folks' home on Sunday, we couldn't do that because we were in meeting. So the the clash between sort of the anything to do with creativity was was pretty severe. And and as a child, you you know, you're you're brought up to be obedient, you're brought up to that, and you go, but oh, I wanted to do this, and then you just move on because you don't have a choice about it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So um I I'm gonna pause you for just a minute because I lost you. Do you mind going back? I heard you say you're brought up to be obedient, but then it cut out.
SPEAKER_00You're brought up to be obedient and to accept the you know, the voice of authority, which is either your parents or you know, the the ministers and you know the the elders in meeting, but there's a clash between that and this creative urge inside you, even as a child, you want to go on the band trip and you you want to be with the other kids and you know selling candy bars in the neighborhood, but you can't because it's Wednesday night. So that that kind of set me on the on the knowledge that this was going to be a conflict even growing up. And going through school, I would write story, short stories, and things as English assignments. And I kind of the the encouragement I was getting, my mom was always very encouraging. She's she's been my number one supporter throughout this whole career. But I think it was a choice that she also had to make. I remember being in an assembly getting an academic award, and somebody leaned over and she was in the audience, and someone leaned over and said, Oh, you must be so proud. And she had to default to to meeting speak. And she said, No, I'm not proud. I'm very happy for her because oh, you're not allowed to be proud, are you? Pride is a sin. And so, you know, even then these odd little clashes between what was expected in the meetings and what you know, sort of you would naturally allow in a creative child was even a conflict for her.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, that's beautiful that you had a mom who was supportive of you and and was there in her own way, right? Through through that. Um, that's really wonderful. Um, and yeah, it it really plays out in everything in vocabulary and in the way that we think about life. And from that, I want to ask you about when you were in the church um and you viewed God and you viewed love. How how would you say, like, what was your thought on God at that time? And what was your thought on love? Like, how did love work in your mind? If you had to describe love to someone, what would have been your definition when you were younger, when you were in the church?
SPEAKER_00Um, I there was always like two halves to that question because in in meeting, it was, as you know, conditional. So if you behave correctly, if you speak correctly, if you don't wiggle in in or cause a problem in meeting, or if you profess when you're at the appropriate age, then you're accepted and then you receive love. So I did not connect that sort of conditional acceptance with God. That was something separate, which, as it turns out, was a good thing because then I had this relationship with God that stood me in good stead when I no longer had the system to kind of buffer me from the rest of the world. But the the love that I received was from my mother, because you know, as I said, we were in a divided home. My father was abusive. And so our lives as you know, professing women was kind of you and me against the world and separate from both family and from this sort of the system because that we have a really good relationship, even you know, 65 years later, whatever it is, she's she's still my rock and my best friend.
SPEAKER_01Wow, that's really beautiful. That's so beautiful that she represents your definition of love, that she brought that unconditional love to you and through herself on throughout your childhood and even up to now. Um yeah, wow. And so, yeah, now like the the other thought that I'm having as I'm just thinking about everything that you said is that a lot of people who have been in that same system um grew up having those two as one, where God was the church and and didn't have that separation of their own relationship with God versus their relationship with the church. And so that's so wonderful that you had that separation.
SPEAKER_00It it could be hindsight. I mean, it's it's hard to think back and and think, did I really conflate the church with God? But I think, you know, now that we can look at these things critically and and sort of parse out what we were thinking at the time, we were certainly taught that they were supposed to be the same thing. Certainly, you know, I'm the way, the truth, and the life, the way and the truth, we're the church. So it was difficult, believe me, when I got to the point in my late 20s where I was starting to realize how big this creative conflict was going to be, and not seeing creativity in the women around me. That was, you know, looking back now, I'm like, is that is that weird? I mean, was it just sort of flattened, ironed out of us while we're trying to, you know, put on our meeting clothes and and you know, your sum total of your ambition is to get married. That there was only two choices you go in the work or you get married. You don't have a creative life. I don't remember knowing any painters or writers. The only writer I knew wrote a children's book about small animals, and that was accepted because I think they be she became an elder's wife, and that was acceptable. But me, I was pitching to Harlequin, and this was not gonna fly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so when you did take that step of, you know, okay, this is no longer in alignment for me, um, what was that like for you? Like that, like kind of going back into that moment of when you when you left. Um, tell me about that journey.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank goodness for Cherie Crop and the website that she established online sort of right after the internet came into being for public consumption. I found her website in 1998 and that precipitated a crisis. So up until you know early 90s, I'm writing, I'm submitting, I'm not thinking about the consequences. I'm just thinking about getting published. And, you know, foolish or not, so I'm I'm beginning to think that this is going to be a a sticking point with the workers if I do get published with Harlequin, because you know, red covers and and sex scenes and oh my god. So by 1998, I I was you knowodling on the web, exploring it because I was writing HDML code for work by that time. And I found it and I read it, this website of Cherie's, and I'm like, I literally said out loud, why am I sacrificing so much when none of this is even true? Like snowballed into a midlife crisis. I went to work one morning and I I, you know, I was doing the mail for my vice president boss and I got a catalog, and it was, you know, the you know those modest catalogs where they show you that basically it's it's meeting clothes for working women. And I looked at this and I went, I I can't, I just can't do this anymore. And so I abandoned my job, I abandoned the church. The only things that I kept were my husband, my home, and my writing. Everything else that formed the structure of my life, I threw out the window and walked away from because in no way in either of those spaces was I good enough. And it was like this this door opened in my head. I am good enough, and they're not good enough for me. So I'm gonna kick them to the curb and move on with my life, and that's exactly what I did.
SPEAKER_01Wow. So beautiful, and also a testament to sometimes or not sometimes, I'm gonna say every time that we have a huge change, a massive change like this, there has to be this. It's like before things settle, there is this upside down turning of our life where everything feels like it's it's turned upside down, and you can't literally you can't see like right from left and up from down. And this is a part of the process. It's just important to in those moments to ground yourself in what you know is true. Like for you, you knew that you had that knowing of like your husband, good thing, like you know, your writing was like a really good thing. And and so you held on to those and you move forward in yourself and in what was the right thing for you and everything else, like around, you know, settled eventually. And and now, like, look where you're at, like in such a beautiful space doing what you love, you know.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And it it was it was hard because you realize that you have never made an adult decision in your life up until that point. You move to a place where there's friends, you move in with, you know, a professing girl, your decisions about where to live, what meeting to go to, what uh boy to be interested in, these these decisions are all made for you. And you know, your friends, they met, they get married and they have a talk with the workers. Well, where would we be most useful in this state or province? And they move there to open a meeting. And they don't actually get to make those adult decisions that you know normal people get. And and so, you know, when you're making decisions about your own creativity, that the there's no blueprint for that. There's the workers can't tell you what to do with that except to stifle it because creativity is seen as part of human nature, and we've been taught practically since birth to stifle our human nature, and so possibly that's why we don't see a whole lot of the creative arts within the system, is because that connection with sinful human nature has been made from a very early age.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that I'm glad you articulated that the way that you did. It's so true. And when we are in connection with ourselves, that's when we really create from this authentic place and we create something that no one else could create because we're literally using in the moment, we're just tuning into, we're we're really in tune with ourselves and with that authenticity. And and I think that that like I never thought of it until you just said this, but that does connect to our ability to make choices, that like autonomy and um that you know, um independence that is a part of being an adult. Like it's really important for us to have the skill set to be able to say, should I do this or should I do that? And not for it to be this big process of, oh, you know, I think I need to call these, you know, people outside of myself to decide this thing about my life because I don't have the knowledge, I don't have that connection to myself to be able to make that decision. And so when we are connected to ourselves, that is when we are the most creative, and it's when we are also able to make decisions for ourselves. Um, and yeah, wow. Thank you for bringing those two things together because I've never really thought of it that way until you said that.
SPEAKER_00It's it's something that I've had to learn over like the last couple of decades. And yeah, that and and you know, are you going to serve and celebrate and and offer growth to that part of you that is helping you do these adult things? And for me, the answer was yes, and here's how I'm gonna do it. I'm going to learn how to speak and I'm going to speak without fear.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And I want to go into that a little bit because it doesn't happen overnight. And so for those of you who are listening to this, who maybe maybe it's a different church, maybe it's the same church that we were a part of. Um, but you've been in this experience where you didn't have a lot of your own decision making. And so now you are ready to be empowered and ready to make decisions for yourself. Um, it really starts with just practice, it starts with just speaking so that you can actually start to learn what your voice sounds like. Because how do you know what you sound like if you don't do it? Like you have to speak and it's scary. Um, but as you do it, then you you know you can feel things within your body, like, oh, that felt really good. And oh, that didn't feel so good. And that's how you maneuver, like you start to build that trust with yourself. And like any other relationship, our relationship with ourselves, it takes time and it's built on a lot of um different little moments through time. And um, and I really do I love hearing about your story and your own relationship with yourself and how you started to really step into who you were meant to be always. Um, and it's beautiful that you had that even before you left the meetings, and that knowing of you needing to be an author and needing to fill this place that was so strongly within you that it was your guiding light.
SPEAKER_00It was. And it it sort of I it was like a possessed set of headlights on this dark path. And so I left the church in '98. In 2000, I enrolled in a Master of Arts program in creative writing, uh, the writing popular fiction program at Seton Hill University in Pennsylvania. And by the end of that two year program, my the my thesis had been accepted by Harlequin. And I was on my way in the career that I really wanted. Fast forward, you know. Several years. And I was having lunch with my editor and at a conference. And she said, you know, we we're looking for an Amish author. And she says, How come you're not writing Amish novels? Because they're super popular. That the Amish, of course, don't read them, but the the you know, the demographic of women sort of in my age group and and my economic bracket, they they love Amish stories because it's like a vacation of the mind, going back to a simpler time. It's soothing. So she says, Why aren't you writing these? And I'm like, Well, I I grew up sort of in that that plain way, and I'm not sure that I want to go back there in my head. And then she offered me a six-figure deal. I'm like, okay, I'm down with going back there in my head. And it's actually, you know, that background of growing up the way we did has served me well in the in writing for the like writing about the Amish. Like the the you know, 90 degree angle of research was still there. But the mindset, the what the thinking, the following of doctrine, that's all very similar. So I can I can write it authentically. And so, you know, I while I probably would not have chosen to grow up in this way, in a way, I'm kind of glad I did because it gave me the background to help me do what I want to do.
SPEAKER_01Wow, that's so awesome. But it literally gave you the tools that you need. And like, I mean, your five-year-old self would have had no idea that you know, this is this is why, you know. But wow. The Lord works in my serious ways. Yes, he does. And I was just having a conversation with someone else last week, and they had a similar experience, like sharing of, you know, I'm so grateful for my upbringing because it helped me to become who I am today. And that's just a really beautiful testament to like as we are, you know, moving forward in our healing and evolution, and we're able to look back and see how God has worked through everything to bring us exactly where we are.
SPEAKER_00And where he kind of wants us to be, and and not as granted, the the relationship with him is, you know, we can be childlike and be creative as small children are, but at the same time, you know, from a worldly perspective, we are adults and we can make those choices. And and to him, I I think that that is what he wants. He wants, you know, fully rounded adults that he can also speak to and spark that creativity. The there's the word for inspire comes from a very ancient idea, the breath of God. And I I believe in that. I believe in the breath of God when it comes to sort of the creative impulse in human beings.
SPEAKER_01I do too. And I love that. I love that that I didn't know that connection to inspire. And um, and I think the same thing is said about our decision making, because I truly believe that God is within us and that when we decide something, when it's you know time for us, whether it be like something big, like moving, or whether it be something small, like should I do this over the weekend? Um, that we have intuition and we have this really the way that I see intuition is that connection, that breath of God within us that is leading us to feeling a certain way about something. Like I believe that God wants us to trust in ourselves because that is the connection that we have within is our connection to God. And it's the same way creatively that when we are really in tune with ourselves and with that connection with God, it is from that place that we're able to just like flow creatively and create things that are really beautiful.
SPEAKER_00And it also gives us a sense of peace. Yes, I am I am still on the right path. I'm still within that sort of, I don't know, the the I don't want to say God's approval because I don't know if God works that way, but the the still within that, like you say, that flow of inspiration. Okay, this this is the right thing for me. This is how I can move forward, and I'm at peace with this small or great decision.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I also totally believe that God is empowering, He desires us to be empowered humans and that to live empowered. Um, and I love the work that you're doing now, and um, I'm looking forward to reading one of your books. Bless you. Yay! Um, before we end today, I'd like to ask one last final question, and that is looking back on your time in the meetings, what would one really beautiful memory that you had growing up be that you'd like to share today?
SPEAKER_00Hmm. Long pause on the tape. I there was there was a lot of it that to me wasn't comfortable. Like convention was never comfortable. Okay, really good memory conventions do. And I did make good friends that I have to this day, all well, all but one of us are now out of the meetings. So I I think female friendships is the thing I look back on and I I really feel uh warm about and and that like that was the right thing to do at the time. Yeah, and and even today, you know, people are cropping out of the woodwork. I had a note just yesterday from one of my relatives I've never met. She says, I saw you on the Facebook group, and and that connection was made. And that to me is it's like a gift. It's you know, friendships and restoring of family just coming out of the woodwork because you're willing to speak up and have your own voice.
SPEAKER_01Yes, restoration of family. I love that one. Yes, and female friendships. I I second that. That is something that is like the most precious thing as well for me. Um, thank you so much for sharing, Shelly. Thank you for coming on and sharing your story, and um, I just really appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. It was it's been a blessing.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, Lydia. You have been listening to Unconditioning Love. I am Lydia, your host, and I ask that if you gained something from this podcast, even if it was just to help you to think a little bit more deeply about a concept, I ask that you would go onto iTunes and review this podcast. It's super, super helpful, guys, whenever you rate or review the podcast. Um, and another way that you can give back is through sharing this podcast. Share it with a friend, share it with someone who would also benefit from listening. You can also share it on your Instagram stories, and you can tag me at kini. I'll see you next week.